Audience of Strangers

Any movie gets one. This one had fifteenish - but the really big one that made me horribly upset was the microwave machine, because it didn't make ANY sense, didn't act consistently, and, even assuming it only did exactly what it was supposed to do, STILL didn't do that.

From:

Nothing but that made me go "I *know* that oughtn't happen." There were unusual and exceptional things besides the microwave machine, but I am as willing to buy Wayne's backstory as I am willing to buy shoving a high-school bully when you have the proportionate speed and strength of a spider and not getting suspended or arrested for breaking his ribs into his lungs.

Am perfectly willing to discuss this much further, but no spoilers in the comments until Sunday?

From:

What didn't make any sense about it? Why didn't it act consistently? What did it do or not do that it was supposed to do or not do? The thing was turned on three times. How did it not only accomplish all those things but also ruin the movie for you in those three times?

Oh wait, it's because nothing the Batman franchise ever could do would ever impress you. Because of the BOFFO! and POW! in the 60's, the hanging out with Scooby Doo and Zan and Jana in the 80's, and the Clooney/O'Donnell farce in the 90's, nothing can be done right with the character. As far as I can see, to you, as long as there's one thing done wrong with the material, it doesn't matter what anyone else does right with it. If I'm wrong please explain it to me, because from here that's exactly what it looks like.

From:

Guys?

There is no way in hell I can plausibly see the two of you continuing this discussion in any depth without getting into spoilers. I grant you most people who will be reading this journal will probably have seen the movie by *checks watch* tomorrow. That is not the point. No spoilers until Sunday.

(Bruce Wayne really being Batman is not a spoiler. Nor is the fact that his parents were killed by Joe Chill, or the Scarecrow, Ra'S Al Ghul, Zsaz, Gordon, and Alfred being in the movie. Nor are snippets of dialogue which do not reveal plot points.)

As to it not making sense, there was the way it affected its target when its target was in one location (causing it to explode dramatically) and yet did not cause the same target in another location, also clearly in range at the time of firing, to explode dramatically.

To be blatant, here's the table (http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/water/watdiet.html).

From:

Point taken. Seriously, not even remotely enough to ruin the movie though.

From:

Agreed completely.

From:

I wouldn't listen to him about this movie if he was the last person on earth.

I hear some of the technology was implausible.
Movies are by and large implausible. If this had been a James Bond movie, or a Star Trek movie the technology would have been implausible too. If I can overlook laser watches and warp drives because it's part of the character and/or story that it happen, I can certainly overlook prototype body armor and microwave rays for the same reason. Sounds like

theweaselking niggling at the details so he wouldn't have to admit the movie was great. ;)

Sorry, but when someone says something about a movie not being realistic I usually say "Duh."

From:

Implausible is perhaps a bad word. Let us say internally inconsistent with the setting, although it could have been explained with a snippet of dialogue from Fox. However, I'm glad they didn't go that route; the dialogue was already rather expository-heavy.

> Sorry, but when someone says something about a movie not being realistic
> I usually say "Duh."

For me, it depends on when the criticism comes up.

When I'm thinking, "Hey, shouldn't the microwave be--oh, cool, c'mon, hurry up, he has to get there in time!", and don't worry about the microwave not affecting something it should affect until after even if I'm aware of it, the lack of realism doesn't negatively affect the movie.

When I'm thinking "The mutant zombies have them stuck in the church. Oh, the motorcyle came in through the window--what the hell was she jmping that bike off to get it through the window, anyway?" the lack of realism negatively affects the movie. However, it couldn't do it if the movie weren't failing to draw me in to begin with.

When I'm thinking "Jesus Christ, Andrew, you said you were running a political game and you stick in vampire superheroes who are running around during the day and now you're talking about how Cerberus showing up with a +6 longsword would be cool" I'm not discussing a movie anymore, but the example of how an extreme break with internal plausibility can cause something to suck is there.

From:

I was going to append something on there about a movie being internally consistant with it's own material. I was even going to use the same terms. Funny that =)

Of course, I also agree with you on the "Hey, where the heck did that ramp come from" angle as well, but I think that is more a bad moviemaking issue and less a plausibility one, which I think comes from the aforementioned internal consistancy. For instance, if there were other advanced vehicles in the movie, a motorcycle that could jump like that would be perfectly acceptable. When we're dealing with Gotham City, by default we're also dealing with Metropolis and Center City. The favorite son of one of those cities is an alien who can fly, deflect bullets on his bare skin, shoot lasers out of his eyes, and exist in a vacuum. The other favorite son is a guy who can defy the laws of physics, break the sound barrier, run across water and up vertical surfaces, and somehow never catches his feet on fire. In light of those facts, I'm not that concerned about Batman's body armor, car, or cape.

From:

I think they've actually broken with Metropolis and the rest of the DC universe--while they can co-exist, there's no indication that they do--and I think that's all to the good. A movie has to stand alone in a way comics (especially long-running series) are rarely called upon to do these days; I'd be annoyed if the plausibility level was set by reference to an alien superhero when the alien superhero doesn't even show up and would take away valuable screen time. (There could be a good movie with Superman and Batman in it, but I do not think this movie would have been good with Superman in it.)

Fortunately, they provided the much more internally-consistent-with-the-movie excuse of very cutting-edge technology produced by an incredibly powerful firm. That's cool, and has the added benefit of working for people who don't want to or aren't equipped to view the movie in light of the DC Universe.

From:

Frances is the one who keeps claiming I object to the gadgets. I do not. I wish she'd stop claiming I do, because it's really pissing me off that I've debunked that particular strawman three times in seven hours now, and she doesn't appear to have anything to say about the REAL problems and would prefer to just say "But Batman is SUPPOSED to have gadgets! I can think of lots of reasons for the gadgets!" in response to "The gadgets aren't the issue. I don't give a shit about the gadgets."

The microwave device is internally *in*consistent.

From:

> Frances is the one who keeps claiming I object to the gadgets.

Where?

I got the impression in the post-movie discussion that you did find the gadgets implausible, which does not necessarily make the movie suffer; as I noted, I can live with it, since they've given me enough excuses to do so. I agreed with you that the microwave is internally inconsistent; for me, the movie's engaging enough and it comes up late and subtly enough that I can forgive it. Beyond that, the only thing I've mentioned is that you found Wayne's backstory implausible and that I'm willing to accept that the same way I'm willing to accept Spiderman not accidentally hospitalizing people.

From:

I said NOTHING about Bruce Wayne's backstory being implausible. I mentioned that some of those "impractical" devices could have been mades useful regardless, but only if somebody really championed them, which woudlnt' happen in Wayne Applied Sciences.

From:

*blinks* Apologies, from the way you were discussing him being raised by ninjas in the car, I thought you did find it implausible.

From:

I mentioned Rich Boy Raised By Ninjas as an example of disbelief that could remain suspended.

From:

Which is funny because I looked at that as more believable than the traditional "hires the best trainers from all over the place to hone him to physical perfection."

From:

It's certainly no worse that "super-soldier serum and funky shield" or "alien who gets superpowers from yellow sun", and a whole lot better than "I have a ring that makes me omnipotent against anything except the colour yellow"

From:

I guess I just see a big difference between ninjas and Tae Bo.

From:

I meant the "raised by ninjas" bit, not the "hiring trainers" one.

From: